Mark Hollis:
…Every album we’ve come out and we thought, “oh yeah, this is definitely better than the last.” Because if, if we didn’t think that you see it, we we would still be in there making it. That’s the truth of it.
So, yeah, I mean, you, you do feel that, but it, it’s like with so many things, although you have that, you know, you, you’d like spent so long of every day working on this thing, you’ve had your head done in so much with it that by the time you come out there, it is like, you know, …you can’t, you just feel completely done in, I mean, you know, physically and mentally, you, you’ve absolutely had it. You know?
That is the end. At that point, then you must just sort of try and clear your head and, and you know, I mean, that may, maybe that was part of the reason that there was such a long gap after Spirit of Eden. You know, it, I reckon it took me like pushing a year before I could even come, comes with, with the idea of making another album.
And in some ways, you know, although there are a lot of people that, that might think, you know, the difference from The Colour of Spring to Spirit of Eden was like a big jump. It wasn’t in, in mentally there, there was no big jump at all. It was just like a natural move. The biggest difference maybe was just the amount of time we could actually spend making that album, you know, in, in that we just started working towards this, this thing of, of sort of, you know, always one of the most important things about new music for me is, uh, you know, spontaneity and improvisation. And it, it was just the thing where we were in a position…
…It is just like, take, taking this, this idea that, you know, the, the first time something is played is a, it’s finest. And then the minute you try to recreate that, it becomes an imitation of something that was originally bad now. So it’s all, it is, it’s just working along, along that line, but also saying, “well the, the problem with a lot of improvisation is that it meanders away from the point too much.” So the thing that this time afforded us was to sort of go in with, with people that we wanted to play with purely from an an, you know, foremost from an aptitude point of view, give them absolute freedom in terms of what they play, but then just so that everything that they, they do play is, is free form, but then to construct an arrangement by taking little sections of that and, and building it up from there, you know, but that takes a, a large amount of time because, you know, maybe you’re sort of 10 hours playing back on something, you know, to get a few seconds, 90% of what you play will be rubbish.
There will only be, you know, if you are improvising, if, if you get 10%, which is only good, I think you’re doing really well, I think you’re doing amazingly well. If you get half percent, I think you’re doing really well.
So that’s, that’s why I, I think this thing with, with time limit of Spirit of Eden and, and Laughing Stock lengthens out noise is just because of that. With this one [Laughing Stock], there’s, there’s been a very conscious effort to get away from conventional songwriting things. So if, if you sort of look at, look at the first track up there, “Myrrhman,” there, there is no part of that track which will ever repeat itself. You know, if you move into the second track [“Ascension Day”], each, each verse that you move through cuts by a bar, it is increasingly getting shorter as the bit that’s going on, the back is getting longer and the vocals are shifting their position with reference to, to the bar. You know, it is just to get away from, you know, like this kind of frustration you get of, of, you know, fitting into molds.
*Plays the track, “Myrrhman.”
The reason that movement is up the front of this album is, is because one, one thing we wanted to get away from is, is this thing where there’s a tendency to look at albums in the same way like you would sort of a live concert, you know, and it’s kind of like, you know, you, you just go in there hard on the first track up, you know, I would think the majority of albums, you know, you sort of put on that first track side one, and it’s like, if you like that track, you like the album. If you don’t like that track, you won’t like the album. You know, I don’t like that as a way of thinking about albums. I think albums in order to work properly, you know, they, they should work throughout. You shouldn’t look at one track.
But the, the reason for putting that [Myrrhman] up the front is, is just if, if you are looking in classical terms at things, you know, when, when the thing starts, it doesn’t necessarily have to attack you. What it does is for the first few minutes, it’s there just to create a mood from which it, it then develops from, you know, so it was just thinking of it along those terms. I think that track is the most eclectic track for me. I think it’s sort of as sort of most of the areas that I, I would like or all existed within it. Yeah.
Also like the way, you know, the, with the sort of, uh, drum part on that, I mean it’s, it’s kind of like I, I, I dunno whether you know that that thing, uh, “In A Sentimental Mood,” the John Coltrane thing, but it’s like the kit in the back of that, you know, it sounds like the bloke’s setting his kit up while it’s going on, and that, that’s very much what I like with the drum track on that. Sounds like he’s actually putting his kit together, ready for the second track.
*Plays the track, “Ascension Day.”
…Yeah, we just cut the tape. Yeah, that’s right.
You know, it, it just felt the right way of doing it. It just, you know, it is like, with all these things, I, I, I guess you do a lot of things just to set up things that are about to follow, you know, and that was like the perfect way of setting it up. I mean, I, I’ve heard that done before on, on, uh, you know, not, not with an edit directly into another song, but the thing of cutting something when it, when it was peaking was, was done on, on the Forever Changes album by Love, there were two versions of “A House Is Not A Motel” one, which I, I think was, was hit with a fade and one, which they just let the tape run to its end and then cut it. So, I mean, it’s not, it’s nothing original. You know?
There are days when, you know, certain people are coming into play, but around them it, it would be, you know, just absolutely whatever you, you fancy playing that day, you know, and, and a above everything you are asking him to play in a way that is completely natural to themselves, you know? And I think that’s something which for a lot of people is unusual because I’m, I’m sure with a lot of people, you know, they, they, they sort of say, “well, look, I like his playing.” And, and then they get old of him and say, “well, look, you know, could you play like you played that?” That’s not really what it’s about. You know, you, you play as, as you feel and, and this is the thing you see that the people that, that we work with on these albums, although I think technically they’re very capable people, that is not the most important criteria.
I mean, why we use them is for, for the way they are, you know, and it’s just the attitude of the person that’s, that’s all it’s done, you know, basically whether or not we think they’re decent bloke. I mean, that’s really it.
When you are working on this, on this improvisation thing, sure, there’s a trust in that, you know, you trust the person for himself and, and you know, you, you know, you, you, you like what he plays. But I mean, you know, it’s with anyone. I mean, there is trust within us because certainly, like say with Tim Friese-Greene, I trust him as a producer. There is no question of that, you know? And my relationship with him is that, is is one that’s built on trust, you know, and were I to work with another producer that would take a long time to, to get that, there’s no way I could have made this album with another producer is, is impossible because, you know, Friese-Greene is so important to what this album is. He is as much a part of it as anyone.
And yeah, sure, there, there is trust within all the people we work with. Yeah, definitely there is, but it cannot be trust, you know, that everything you play is gonna be right. I mean, it cannot be that.
The optimum thing anyone can hope for is, is that music exists outside of the time in which it’s written. For me, the only way you can do that is to make it as, as honest as it can. And hat is true of the sound. If you start stylizing sounds, then it will become, you know, to an actual period. You know, if, if, if you just have the sound as honest as it is, then, then it, it cannot, cannot, you know, suffer that that problem.
That’s one of the reasons you see where we would look to use in a studio like Wessex, which is an extremely large one. So that what what you do is, is you give perspective to the instruments by a physical distance from which you might, you know, not from a board with, with echoes in that, because this, this thing of, of instruments sounding the way they are and having, having their true character I think is really important. I think that’s also true, you see from a vocal point of view. And, and definitely for me, you see the, the most important album that I I was listening to before we went in from a view of Vocal sound would’ve been “New Morning,” the Bob Dylan album of 72. Because there, if you’re talking about Sounds being honest, I mean, you, I don’t think you can get much more honest than than that. It just sounds, you know, like, like the band’s in the front room with you.
*Plays the track, “After The Flood.”
Everything is set up, every instrument will be set up so that any point when, and it would be permanently set up. So at any point when you actually felt like trying something, you can just go out and try it. I mean, it, it is a very fluid thing. It’s everything would be very loose in, in, in the studio. We were just going with a basic framework of, of what the song would be on the ones where drums exist. I mean, Lee Harris would know what he’s about and then, you know, there would, there would just be the, the basic chord shape and the vocal line that that would be it.
And, and then you see, you know, with within that, across these tracks, there would be two different ethics to what Lee would go in drums. One would be looking back to Tago Mago, the Can album that what, what a drummer does is he just locks in. He, he just plays regardless of anything that happens around him. And he never, never, you know, never stops. He has to be faded out. He’s just like his own, you know, his own entity.
But then you see also that’s, that’s what’s so, so true of this album for me as, as opposed to any other that, that, you know, the, the, the people within within that are playing within these tracks all all have a different understanding of what the on beat is, what the offbeat is, what, what signature they’re playing. They all, they all just work within their own little field and at points, you know, they, they meet, meet up again, you know, they meet up with each other. But, but that, that is maybe, you know, the, the most important thing about this album for me is, is that everyone is in their own little time zone, you know? Yeah. “time walk.”
You, you, you know, there, there’s no way at the point when we go in that we know what this album will sound like or, or we ever know. And, and this again would, you know, would, would be true of, of the, the previous album is, is you just go in knowing what, what the aptitude is you want and that, and that’s it. Nothing, nothing else than that. You know, there’s no way I, I think you can ever go wrong on that because there is no right and wrong. The right and wrong is only, only is is an internal thing. If if, if you get on with it, then it’s right. It’s as simple as that.
You know, that’s why there can never be any disappointment at the end of making an album. You see, you know, you can’t go wrong. You’re in a faultless position, I mean, people can hate it, but you personally cannot go wrong with it.
If you take, say, you know, on that first track on Spirit of Eden, [“The Rainbow”] I mean, for me, tho those first two notes on the harmonica summed up what that album was for me. It, it was just not concerned about, you know, that the number of notes, it was just concerned about the way those two notes were played, you know, and, and certainly it’s true that I, I would say, you know, the, the most, the most in important thing for me about any record is, is, you know, the silence is, is above everything. And I would rather hear one note than I would too, and I’d rather In nothing than I would one note, you know, it, it, it definitely works that way.
So yeah, I mean that, that sort of was Spirit of Eden and then on, on this new one, if, if you look at sort of like the instrumental in “After The Flood,” which just plays a minute on one note [the shozygs solo]. I mean, that, that again is is the ethic. You’re just talking about one note, but you, you feel the note. It’s, that’s, that’s what’s important.
For me, and Tim Friese-Greene, I would say that is without question, the best solo that we’ve ever, you know, got together now, just because like I say, one note, that’s it, but you just hit it hard.
Two saxophones played a tone apart. Yeah. For just blowing on the one note. And then, you know, obviously I couldn’t blow for a like a minute, but it’s just, you know, cut across. Because I mean, the, the idea with that you see was just, you know, I’ve just got this, this picture in my head, I don’t even know how true it is, but of Roland Kirk, you see, I used to love those things where you saw him with two instruments in his mouth at the same time, and I just sort of imagine that that would be about where he is at, you know? So always to me that was just like, you know, Roland Kirk, that section as to whether he would ever play that or I, I dunno, but that’s like the image that I would’ve had in my mind about it.
You know, technique has never been an important thing to me feeling is, is above always has been and always will be above technique. So it’s like, you know, a lot of the, the melodies that exist within, within this album are only like one note or two notes. It’s no great hardship to actually play it, but it’s just a question of, of whether, you know, it, it sounded right at the time, it is like quite often, you know, when, when people are, people are in plan that the stuff that we will get on with best is, is the, you know, the, the most simplistic stuff.
*Plays the track, “Taphead.”
We just sort of go, go in and, and write all, and then I’d just sort of work for the next few months, you know, doing, doing the lyrics to it. Yeah. And, and just, you know, I, I mean, because always, I mean, I’ve, I’ve always written lyrics from a phone point of view. I mean, it’s, it’s always bothered, bothered us, you know, things, things where vocals are set too loud in a mix anyway, so that it, it’s as though, you know, this vocal, I still assume a dominant role and, and, and no matter what works been put into the back and it just becomes subservient. I mean, I’ve never been keen on that anyway, because I think the energy’s within the track. There’s no reason for one thing to outbalance here, but hopefully the way in which these actual vocal lines work now is, is working even more so towards that kind of, uh, you know, in instrumental endpoint, I hope so.
*Plays the track, “New Grass.”
“After The Flood” and “New Grass” were both nightmare mixes, you know, trying to get everything to actually have its own position. I mean, you know, I would hope it would take a real lot, lot of plays before you start noticing everything that exists within this album.
Yeah, I would hope that, you know, I I, I don’t wanna write off other areas of music because, you know, they, they, they all have their place and everything and I mean, there are so many records that I grew up with, which were like instant records with me. So I don’t in any way want to, you know, write off that side of things. But yeah, certainly from the point of view of, of sort of where we are working, I, I, I, I think there’s like an amount of work you have to do to, to actually realize what’s, what’s within those albums.
Maybe “work” is wrong. I maybe that’s, that’s not the right word. I, I mean no, all, all, all I mean is I, I just think you need to actually listen to it. That’s all it is. That, that you don’t do it while you’re doing other things because I, I just think you, you’re not gonna pick up on it. That’s, that’s all it is, that you just sit there and do listen to it. Yeah, yeah. It doesn’t require any kind of intellect, anything like that. No, just gotta listen.
*Plays the track, “Runeii.”
To me, this album is more jazz orientated than any other album we’ve made, but I mean, wear it to be thought of as a jazz album, I’d be well disappointed because, you know, for two things, firstly, it depends on how you actually define jazz. I mean, you know, you’ve, you’ve got sort of like all Nick Coleman on, on one end with his free jazz, and then you’ve got the other end, you know, like Kenny Ball. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty wide old term. I don’t, I don’t think it’s, it’s a very good time jazz.
And then you’ve also got other, you know, other sort of impressions of jazz where it’s sort of like the, the minute you say “jazz” and you say, okay, well there’s like “rock” and you look at jazz rock and then it’s like this frightening idea of like this sort of rock band with a saxophone. I mean, I, I really don’t like the thought of any of those things.
It is sort of like, you know, if you go back to let’s say can with Tago Mago, you, I mean, you could say, well, yeah, there’s definitely jazz within that album, but you’d never call it a jazz album. Or, or I wouldn’t, I’d never call it a rock album. You see, I, I would hope that that, you know, the albums we make are far more diverse than be put in any one area because, you know, at, at the end of the day, you know, if, if what you do want to be is, is original, then, then your best chance of any form of originality is, is diversity and to take as little as you can from, from each area, but, but just trying to combine ’em in a sympathetic way.
So that’s, that’s sort of, you know, hopefully what, what I, I would think we do.
You know, I, I think with without question, it, it would be nice, you know, to, to think, “well look, you know, maybe someone might hear this album in 10 years time and think it is a good album.” Well, sure, I think that’s great. But, you know, that’s, that’s sort of nothing that I would spend time worrying about. I mean, I, I would only think about that while I was making the album thinking, you know, does, does this have, you know what, well, yeah, but even then, I dunno that I would think about it like that, because you just work within the present and then at the point the album’s mixed it, it becomes the past, you know, and then now you see for me, I would rather just have a break and then look to the next album at some point.
…
END.
